Post by Mlle Bienvenu on Aug 24, 2003 20:52:41 GMT -5
Not really relavent to anything, but I found this post fascinating insight on Lucius Malfoy...and the son he never had. 
I bet he wishes Draco was like this...
In post # 78611, evilshelly wrote:
<snip>
>>>I was wondering - what exactly was Lucius trying to achieve by
giving Tom Riddle's diary to Ginny? Was it his own idea, or was he
perhaps somehow receiving [or had in the past received] orders from
Voldemort? <snip> I had the impression that serving Voldemort had
been a bit of an inconvenience for Lucius - he just doesn't strike me
as the grovelling type, and of course he never tried to find his old
master. Were his actions in 'the Chamber of Secrets' an attempt to
bring back a Voldemort indebted to him, to guarantee himself a
position of greater power this time round?<<<
I've wondered myself about Malfoy's motivations from time to time. I
don't remember anything about it being posted recently, and I have
yet to come close to reading all the posts in this group, so I can't
point anything out to you.
What I do have as a start is some canon from Chamber of Secrets to
lend hopefully a little light on the subject.
When Harry accidentally Floos into Flourish and Blotts, he ends up
overhearing a conversation between Lucius Malfoy and Mr. Borgin.
They're discussing recent Ministry raids.
Borgin asks if the Ministry has visited the Malfoy home yet, to which
Malfoy replies that they have not. And then he says,
"There are rumors about a new Muggle Protection Act--no doubt that
flea-bitten, Muggle-loving fool Arthur Weasley is behind it--"
--CoS, US paperback 51.
And then at the end of the book, Dumbledore is telling Malfoy that if
Harry and Ron hadn't found the diary, Ginny would have been blamed
for opening the Chamber. Dumbledore says,
"The Weasleys are one of our most prominent pure-blood families.
Imagine the effect on Arthur Weasley and his Muggle Protection Act,
if his own daughter was discovered attacking and killing Muggle-
borns...Very fortunate the diary was discovered, and Riddle's
memories wiped from it."
--CoS, US paperback 336.
So it would appear that Lucius Malfoy's agenda was to discredit pro-
muggle Arthur Weasley. But is that his only agenda? I wonder, too
whether Malfoy really wanted Voldemort back. Did Lucius Malfoy know
what the Diary would do? I mean, he obviously knew that sneaking the
Diary to Ginny would give her the chance to intereact with Tom Riddle
and allow him to force her to open the Chamber of Secrets. But was
Malfoy aware that Tom Riddle would be able to move from mere mind-
controlling memory to full-fledged Voldemort again?
I think Lucius Malfoy is a careful and sneaky fellow in general so I
am inclined to believe he did know what giving the Diary to Ginny
Weasley would ultimately accomplish: The return of Voldemort? Not
exactly. As evilshelly mentions above, Malfoy would love a Voldemort
in his debt. It would give him even more power.
And to expound on that idea, it would make Malfoy the one in charge.
Perhaps he believes that this sixteen-year-old boy can be molded into
whatever Lucius finds appropriate. I would imagine that even
thoroughly muggle-hating sixteen-year-old Tom Riddle could still be
influenced. After leaving Hogwarts, he went off to learn all he
could about the Dark Arts.
This Tom Riddle could do the same, only his good friend and mentor,
Lucius Malfoy is there this time to give him a helping hand. Malfoy
could set him on a similar path to the one he had before, aiding him
in his goals, which have been theorized on recently.
Let's look at some very heavily edited recent discussion on Voldemort
and Lucius:
Abigail said in post #78512:
>>>Where does that leave Voldemort, or more accurately, the young
Tom Riddle? He is neither pure-blood, nor wealthy, but he has
developed a burning hatred of the world he leaves behind
whenever he comes to Hogwarts. A different person might have
chosen to climb the ladder. To play society's game.
<snip>
He does not choose to do this. Rather then navigate the currents
of society until he reaches the top, Tom Riddle chooses to tear
society itself down.<<<
Catlady, in post #78548, said:
>>>To me, Lucius desires power, and feels that there is no such thing
as ENOUGH power. To me, Lucius believes that he is using Voldemort to
get power for himself. I believe that Lucius signed on with Voldemort
not because he viewed Voldemort as a strong leader to follow to that
leader's victory, but because he viewed Voldemort as a strong horse
that he could ride to his own victory.<<<
These tie in nicely with the possible goal of Lucius Malfoy in
bringing back the younger Tom Riddle rather than trying to actively
trying to resurrect the not-quite-dead Lord Voldemort, who has
outlived his usefulness to Malfoy.
In the first war, as Catlady says, Malfoy wanted power and saw
Voldemort as a means to getting at that power, nothing more. While
he was a Death Eater, Malfoy's true loyalty was to himself. When
baby Harry defeated Voldemort, Malfoy had no reason to want him back.
If he'd had the younger Tom Riddle, though, he could have set him not
on the destructive path of Lord Voldemort, bent on immortality and
being feared by all, but instead on the alternative path that Abigail
talks about in the small snippet above. Malfoy could see himself
molding this brilliant young mind, with the same ideals that he holds
himself, into one of the most powerful and influental wizards in the
world.
Society as Malfoy knows it would be safe, and he'd have a very
powerful wizard in his pocket.
Not to mention the satisfaction he'd probably take in knowing that he
now controlled the man he'd once called "My Lord." Talk about power.
Tamee in post # 78583:
>>>What I see Lucius desiring is for control of the WW followed by
the conquest of muggles and a world ruled by a wizard elite with
himself preferably at the head or at least the power behind the
throne.<<<
I agree. This fits in nicely with this Lucius/Diary discussion. If
the Diary plan had succeeded and Lucius had both discredited Arthur
Weasley and brought back a new protege to aid him in his goals, he
could have very well gained control of the WW and at least made it
easier for like minded wizards to do what they want to muggles and
muggle-borns.
I suppose my only question to Lucius wanting Tom Riddle rather than
Voldemort around would be what would Tom Riddle say when he learned
about what Voldemort had done with his future? Would he then set
himself again on a similar path regardless of Lucius Malfoy's
influence? Would he immediately go after Harry Potter? Would that
be wise.
Ack, speculation on speculations! I'll stop there.
This ended up about five times longer than I'd initially intended,
and I'm not even sure I said all that I wanted to.
I hope it makes a little sense,
KathyK
I bet he wishes Draco was like this...In post # 78611, evilshelly wrote:
<snip>
>>>I was wondering - what exactly was Lucius trying to achieve by
giving Tom Riddle's diary to Ginny? Was it his own idea, or was he
perhaps somehow receiving [or had in the past received] orders from
Voldemort? <snip> I had the impression that serving Voldemort had
been a bit of an inconvenience for Lucius - he just doesn't strike me
as the grovelling type, and of course he never tried to find his old
master. Were his actions in 'the Chamber of Secrets' an attempt to
bring back a Voldemort indebted to him, to guarantee himself a
position of greater power this time round?<<<
I've wondered myself about Malfoy's motivations from time to time. I
don't remember anything about it being posted recently, and I have
yet to come close to reading all the posts in this group, so I can't
point anything out to you.
What I do have as a start is some canon from Chamber of Secrets to
lend hopefully a little light on the subject.
When Harry accidentally Floos into Flourish and Blotts, he ends up
overhearing a conversation between Lucius Malfoy and Mr. Borgin.
They're discussing recent Ministry raids.
Borgin asks if the Ministry has visited the Malfoy home yet, to which
Malfoy replies that they have not. And then he says,
"There are rumors about a new Muggle Protection Act--no doubt that
flea-bitten, Muggle-loving fool Arthur Weasley is behind it--"
--CoS, US paperback 51.
And then at the end of the book, Dumbledore is telling Malfoy that if
Harry and Ron hadn't found the diary, Ginny would have been blamed
for opening the Chamber. Dumbledore says,
"The Weasleys are one of our most prominent pure-blood families.
Imagine the effect on Arthur Weasley and his Muggle Protection Act,
if his own daughter was discovered attacking and killing Muggle-
borns...Very fortunate the diary was discovered, and Riddle's
memories wiped from it."
--CoS, US paperback 336.
So it would appear that Lucius Malfoy's agenda was to discredit pro-
muggle Arthur Weasley. But is that his only agenda? I wonder, too
whether Malfoy really wanted Voldemort back. Did Lucius Malfoy know
what the Diary would do? I mean, he obviously knew that sneaking the
Diary to Ginny would give her the chance to intereact with Tom Riddle
and allow him to force her to open the Chamber of Secrets. But was
Malfoy aware that Tom Riddle would be able to move from mere mind-
controlling memory to full-fledged Voldemort again?
I think Lucius Malfoy is a careful and sneaky fellow in general so I
am inclined to believe he did know what giving the Diary to Ginny
Weasley would ultimately accomplish: The return of Voldemort? Not
exactly. As evilshelly mentions above, Malfoy would love a Voldemort
in his debt. It would give him even more power.
And to expound on that idea, it would make Malfoy the one in charge.
Perhaps he believes that this sixteen-year-old boy can be molded into
whatever Lucius finds appropriate. I would imagine that even
thoroughly muggle-hating sixteen-year-old Tom Riddle could still be
influenced. After leaving Hogwarts, he went off to learn all he
could about the Dark Arts.
This Tom Riddle could do the same, only his good friend and mentor,
Lucius Malfoy is there this time to give him a helping hand. Malfoy
could set him on a similar path to the one he had before, aiding him
in his goals, which have been theorized on recently.
Let's look at some very heavily edited recent discussion on Voldemort
and Lucius:
Abigail said in post #78512:
>>>Where does that leave Voldemort, or more accurately, the young
Tom Riddle? He is neither pure-blood, nor wealthy, but he has
developed a burning hatred of the world he leaves behind
whenever he comes to Hogwarts. A different person might have
chosen to climb the ladder. To play society's game.
<snip>
He does not choose to do this. Rather then navigate the currents
of society until he reaches the top, Tom Riddle chooses to tear
society itself down.<<<
Catlady, in post #78548, said:
>>>To me, Lucius desires power, and feels that there is no such thing
as ENOUGH power. To me, Lucius believes that he is using Voldemort to
get power for himself. I believe that Lucius signed on with Voldemort
not because he viewed Voldemort as a strong leader to follow to that
leader's victory, but because he viewed Voldemort as a strong horse
that he could ride to his own victory.<<<
These tie in nicely with the possible goal of Lucius Malfoy in
bringing back the younger Tom Riddle rather than trying to actively
trying to resurrect the not-quite-dead Lord Voldemort, who has
outlived his usefulness to Malfoy.
In the first war, as Catlady says, Malfoy wanted power and saw
Voldemort as a means to getting at that power, nothing more. While
he was a Death Eater, Malfoy's true loyalty was to himself. When
baby Harry defeated Voldemort, Malfoy had no reason to want him back.
If he'd had the younger Tom Riddle, though, he could have set him not
on the destructive path of Lord Voldemort, bent on immortality and
being feared by all, but instead on the alternative path that Abigail
talks about in the small snippet above. Malfoy could see himself
molding this brilliant young mind, with the same ideals that he holds
himself, into one of the most powerful and influental wizards in the
world.
Society as Malfoy knows it would be safe, and he'd have a very
powerful wizard in his pocket.
Not to mention the satisfaction he'd probably take in knowing that he
now controlled the man he'd once called "My Lord." Talk about power.
Tamee in post # 78583:
>>>What I see Lucius desiring is for control of the WW followed by
the conquest of muggles and a world ruled by a wizard elite with
himself preferably at the head or at least the power behind the
throne.<<<
I agree. This fits in nicely with this Lucius/Diary discussion. If
the Diary plan had succeeded and Lucius had both discredited Arthur
Weasley and brought back a new protege to aid him in his goals, he
could have very well gained control of the WW and at least made it
easier for like minded wizards to do what they want to muggles and
muggle-borns.
I suppose my only question to Lucius wanting Tom Riddle rather than
Voldemort around would be what would Tom Riddle say when he learned
about what Voldemort had done with his future? Would he then set
himself again on a similar path regardless of Lucius Malfoy's
influence? Would he immediately go after Harry Potter? Would that
be wise.
Ack, speculation on speculations! I'll stop there.
This ended up about five times longer than I'd initially intended,
and I'm not even sure I said all that I wanted to.
I hope it makes a little sense,
KathyK
