Mlle Bienvenu
The Childlike Empress
The Word Alchemist
Posts: 1,626
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Post by Mlle Bienvenu on Feb 12, 2005 18:33:51 GMT -5
Okay... here's what I think I've found out. I've come to the conclusion that FMA is probably closer linked to Dante's Purgatorio (and possibly Dante's Paradisio, but I haven't looked into the Seven Virtues...: wonders if there's seven military people corrosponding to the Virtues I've come to that conclusion through what I know from the manga (given certain character's ends in relation to the punishments Dante has for offenders practicing the corrosponding sin...and identities and their relationships to each other Dante's heirarchy of sins... which goes Lust, Gluttony (note how they're next to each other? and also that they are first? We see them together in the first ep of FMA) Avarice/Greed, Sloth, Anger/Wrath, Envy, and finally Pride,) since I haven't seen the rest of the series I'm really going by what I've seen in the manga...so...might be different, might be the same.... : shrugs : At any rate, I would recommend FMA fans read Dante.
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Post by Lolua on Mar 3, 2005 20:37:23 GMT -5
First, let me clear up a few things about The Divine Comedy, just in case anyone is reading this thread besides me and Mlle. :-P TDC is a "comedy" in the sense of it having a happy ending rather than a tragic one. The happy ending is Dante's own salvation as he journeys toward the perfection of God heaven. Like other great journeys (Frodo's quest to destroy the ring in The Lord of the Rings, Neo's journey down the rabbit hole and to his destiny in The Matrix), The Divine Comedy is a work in three volumes, in this case called canticles. The individual chapters are called cantos, of which there are around 33 in each of the three canticles *coughcough*. The close relationship of these terms to the Latin and Italian words for "song" (and their English derivatives) is no coincidence. Oh, the symbolism. THE SYMBOLISM! The three canticles correspond to the three possible destinations for the Christian soul after death: Inferno (The Fires of Hell), Purgatorio (Purgatory), and Paradiso (Paradise, or Heaven). Each place, according to Dante, has a distinct structure. Hell is a stepped pit leading to the center of the earth, rather like an enormous Colosseum-style Roman ampitheater seen from above. Purgatory is a mountain that rises toward the sky like a ten-stepped wedding cake. At the top, instead of the plastic bride and groom, lies the Garden of Eden. Heaven is structured from concentric spheres, which expand outward from the earth as the orbiting planets of the solar system are arranged around the sun. Just before reaching the Aristotelian void beyond the Empyrean at the edge of habitable space, Dante glimpses God in all his glory. Okay, so what does all this have to do with FMA? - Inferno and Purgatorio refer to some of the Seven Deadly Sins, the villains of FMA. When Dante first enters Hell, he crosses the river Acheron and enters Limbo. There he meets his guide, the poet Virgil, who leads him down the sloping terraces of Upper Hell, where dwell those whose primary sins were of Incontinence (as in a lack of moderation). These include the sins of 1) Lust , 2) Gluttony, 3) Avarice and Spendthriftiness, and 4) Wrath and Sullenness. These are the first sins Dante and Virgil encounter, and, as Mlle points out above, the homunculi Lust and Gluttony are the first villains introduced to us in FMA.
Dante structured the island mountain in Purgatorio around the seven deadly/capital sins as set down by the Church Fathers. After the first few
- Circles have great importance in both works. The "circles of hell" in Inferno are the tiers or shelves around the edge of the pit of hell, which house different kinds of sinners. Purgatorio similarly has terraces both inside purgatory proper and below the angel-guarded gate at the third level. Paradiso's round spheres house the angels and saints. The whole journey is a cycle, leading Dante from one side of the earth, through its core, out the other side, up into the sky, and then back to the woods where he began his journey. In FMA, alchemy depends on transmutation circles, the ouroboros tattoos on the Seven Deadly Sins, and the circle Ed makes with his arms when he claps to perform a quick transmutation.
In both works, the circle is a symbol of perfection. For Ed and Al, the ultimate object of their quest is the Philosopher's Stone, which will enable them to get something (their bodies) without giving anything of equal value in return. The Stone, a perfect alchemical device/medium, would give them ultimate control over matter. Dante's perfect circles in TDC are a evidence of the ordered nature of the universe, for even the deepest levels of Hell bear this divinely planned shape.
Yeah... not quite finished with this post yet. Some useful links: Side Elevation of the Inferno - jefferson.village.virginia.edu/dante/images/magnifier3.htmlMap of Hell - www.atsweb.neu.edu/uc/s.cassavant/HellMap.htmlThe Seven Deadly Sins - www.whitestonejournal.com/seven/Aristotle's Cosmos - web.clas.ufl.edu/users/rhatch/pages/03-Sci-Rev/SCI-REV-Home/resource-ref-read/chief-systems/08-0ARIST3-WSYS.htmlInferno, Canto 24 - pd.sparknotes.com/poetry/inferno/section25.htmlchelydri - snapping turtles jaculi - jerboas (rel. to kangaroo rats) phareae - a kind of grass? cenchri - burred grass amphisboena - a mythical serpent with a head at each end of its body
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Mlle Bienvenu
The Childlike Empress
The Word Alchemist
Posts: 1,626
|
Post by Mlle Bienvenu on Mar 19, 2005 5:18:14 GMT -5
MAJOR SPOILERS FOR MANGA AND MAYBE ANIME
M = Manga A = Anime MS: Manga Speculation AS: Anime Speculation
Sin - Punishment in Hell -Animal - Color
Pride - broken on the wheel - Horse - Violet MS: Death by transmutation circle?
Envy -put in freezing water -Dog -Green M: Eny turns into a dog at one point. M: Turns into a Dog of the Military at one point.
Wrath -dismembered alive -Bear -Red
Sloth -thrown in snake pits -Goat -Light Blue
Greed -put in cauldrons of boiling oil -Frog -Yellow M: Boiled alive in something hot, maybe oil.
Gluttony -forced to eat rats, toads, and snakes -Pig -Orange MS: Does he have to eat another Homunculus?
Lust -smothered in fire and brimstone -Cow -Blue M: Is roasted by Mustang.
SPOILERS FOR MANGA AND POSSIBLY ANIME
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